More about the Chrome HTML Video Codec Change

Friday, January 14, 2011

There has been a lot of discussion regarding this week’s announcement of upcoming changes to HTML video codec support in Chrome. The future of web video is an important topic, we welcome the debate, and want to address some of the questions raised.

Why is Google supporting WebM for the HTML <video> tag?

This week’s announcement was solely related to the HTML <video> tag, which is part of the emerging set of standards commonly referred to as “HTML5.” We believe there is great promise in the <video> tag and want to see it succeed. As it stands, the organizations involved in defining the HTML video standard are at an impasse. There is no agreement on which video codec should be the baseline standard. Firefox and Opera support the open WebM and Ogg Theora codecs and will not support H.264 due to its licensing requirements; Safari and IE9 support H.264. With this status quo, all publishers and developers using the <video> tag will be forced to support multiple formats.

This is not an ideal situation and we want to see a viable baseline codec that all browsers can support. It is clear that there will not be agreement to specify H.264 as the baseline codec in the HTML video standard due to its licensing requirements. Furthermore, we genuinely believe that core web technologies need to be open and community developed to enable the same great innovation that has brought the web to where it is today. These facts led us to join the efforts of the web community and invest in an open alternative, WebM.

Why didn’t you select H.264 as the baseline codec for the HTML <video> tag in Chrome?

We acknowledge that H.264 has broader support in the publisher, developer, and hardware community today (though support across the ecosystem for WebM is growing rapidly). However, as stated above, there will not be agreement to make it the baseline in the HTML video standard due to its licensing requirements. To use and distribute H.264, browser and OS vendors, hardware manufacturers, and publishers who charge for content must pay significant royalties—with no guarantee the fees won’t increase in the future. To companies like Google, the license fees may not be material, but to the next great video startup and those in emerging markets these fees stifle innovation.

But it's not just the license fees; an even more important consideration is the pace of innovation and what incentives drive development. No community development process is perfect, but it’s generally the case that the community-driven development of the core web platform components is done with user experience, security and performance in mind. When technology decisions are clouded by conflicting incentives to collect patent royalties, the priorities and outcome are less clear and the process tends to take a lot longer. This is not good for the long term health of web video. We believe the web will suffer if there isn't a truly open, rapidly evolving, community developed alternative and have made significant investments to ensure there is one.

Does this mean I will no longer be able to play H.264 videos in Chrome?

H.264 plays an important role in video and the vast majority of the H.264 videos on the web today are viewed in plug-ins such as Flash and Silverlight. These plug-ins are and will continue to be supported in Chrome. Our announcement was only related to the <video> tag, which is part of the emerging HTML platform. While the HTML video platform offers great promise, few sites use it today and therefore few users will be immediately impacted by this change.

Isn’t this just an effort by Google to control the web video format?

WebM is backed by many in the web community. Google views its role like any other community member and has no desire or intent to control the WebM format. Our goal is to see the HTML <video> tag become a first-class video platform. As with many other web platform efforts, we expect the majority of organizations and individuals contributing to WebM won’t be affiliated with Google or any single entity.

Developers have already created high-quality alternative (yet compatible) implementations of WebM, and we think that kind of choice is great for everyone.

Won’t this decision force publishers to create multiple copies of their videos?

Some have expressed concern that our announcement will force publishers and developers to maintain multiple copies of their content when they otherwise would not have had to. Google is among the largest publishers of video content in the world, and as such we are sympathetic to this concern. Remember, Firefox and Opera have never supported H.264 due to its licensing requirements, they both support WebM and Ogg Theora. Therefore, unless publishers and developers using the HTML <video> tag don’t plan to support the large portion of the desktop and mobile web that use these browsers, they will have to support a format other than H.264 anyway (which is why we are working to establish a baseline codec for HTML video). More broadly, given the proliferation of devices, platforms, and connectivity types used to access the web, most content providers already produce multiple versions of their videos to optimize for these devices. We’re confident that the rapid evolution of HTML video and WebM over the coming year will make the combination a compelling solution for content providers and developers and the proliferation of WebM capable devices will make their investments highly leveraged.

Bottom line, we are at an impasse in the evolution of HTML video. Having no baseline codec in the HTML specification is far from ideal. This is why we're joining others in the community to invest in WebM and encouraging every browser vendor to adopt it for the emerging HTML video platform (the WebM Project team will soon release plugins that enable WebM support in Safari and IE9 via the HTML standard <video> tag). Our choice was to make a decision today and invest in open technology to move the platform forward, or to accept the status quo of a fragmented platform where the pace of innovation may be clouded by the interests of those collecting royalties. Seen in this light, we are choosing to bet on the open web and are confident this decision will spur innovation that benefits users and the industry.



Updated: Clarified that the Safari and IE9 plug-ins to be released by the WebM Project Team enable WebM playback via the HTML standard <video> tag canPlayType interface and not an alternate non-standard method.

242 comments:

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Hugh Isaacs II said...

What about MP3 and AAC support in Chrome, why hasn't this been removed? (Audio matters just as much as Video)

acrylicstyle.com said...

Will we see a new audio codec from you guys like WebM for video and WebP for photos (WebA for audio?) that also doesn't infringe on any patents?

Bassguy said...

H.264 is what we need. Stop slowing innovation. You're propping up flash.

Greg Brown said...

Somebody didn't address the F-word!

Spindel said...

Firefox and Opera could easily support h.264 in Windows 7 since all Windows 7 machines have a h.264 licens (with encoder and decoder) in the Windows Media Foundation. So they don't even have to pay for it!

We need h.264 since it is hardware-accelerated in phones like Android, iPhone and Windows Phone 7 and in many other devices like Google TV etc.!

Stop doing this Google!

Spindel said...

Btw, Google should kick Mike Jazayeri out of the door. I don't think the Google TV team and the YouTube team like the decision to drop the h.264 support.

Rasmus said...

This is a terrible decision, in my opinion. H.264 is (asymptotically close to) perfect as is. Don't try to reverse innovation. Try to resist the not-invented-here syndrome. Google is just setting users up to suffer through yet another format war. And please don't tell me it is to support free and open standards when Chrome continues to support Flash and Silverlight. H.264 solved the problem of having the entire production and distribution chain depend on old inefficient MPEG2 and is ubiquitous and has good hardware support by now. It is an open standard. Period. You can say what you like about the industry practice of using IP royalties to recoup and make a profit on R&D investments (and the cost Google might incur from this), but removing support for the best established video standard is not putting Google's users' interests first.

Peter said...

I, for one, welcome the change to WebM. Lets just hope Apple (who is in the MPEG consortium) joins and adapts iOS for WebM.

But please be consistent and remove Flash. Chrome's custom Flash build that Chrome uses is even worse.

Marcos said...

@Peter: Apple cannot "adapt" iOS for WebM. Every single iOS deviec out there (as well as Android devices) has built-in hardware decoding for H.264. This is why you can watch a lot of video without draining your battery. They could add WebM decoding in software but the performance would most likely be really bad and the battery would not last very long.

Supporting H.264 is a practical thing.

analogue said...

In some years, the web will thank you for your move Google!

Thank you for not being evil!

HeavyD14 said...

Why not both?

Joel Martin said...

This is the right time to push for open and unencumbered technology in HTML5. I remember the pain from the similar Unisys/GIF debacle which inhibited web development for years.

This decision will be painful for some (especially those with a vested interest in H.264) but I think it's the right decision and timing. The more entrenched H.264 becomes in the video tag, the more pain there will be down the road for everybody (except the few MPEG-LA licensors collecting royalties).

Craig Erskine said...

So, in other words, we will never be able to use the video tag with confidence. And Google make sure of that.

Joel said...

Again. With your close minded announcement on Tuesday I uninstalled Chrome and switched to Safari.

You guys are idiots.

Seth Rubenstein said...

Oh well that explains it all that much more Google. You actually don't give a shit and really just want the tag to die. Because we all know WebM will never reach the critical mass it needs to for this decision to actually be worth it. Maybe you don't understand video that well despite your acquisition of YouTube. I happen to work as a web developer for a video production company, all of our content goes online and it's all ALL OF IT encoded in H.264. Theres no way in hell we're gonna take the extra time to encode it a second time in WebM. And I'm gonna go ahead and arrogantly and confidently say no other video production house will either.

Which means what? Flash will be the defacto player for Chrome. There will be no native HTML5 video in Chrome.

So good to go all you've done is propped up Flash even longer. So much for do no evil, instead your motto is do whatever Apple doesnt. I really don't care how much I like Chrome but I'm switching back to Safari (btw you can thank Apple for you rendering engine you ungrateful lot).

Michael Heilemann said...

Flash is an entirely proprietary standard, yet there it is, sitting snugly in the guts of Chrome.

This is hogwash.

Charlie said...

Forget all the open/closed royalty/free arguments for a second. How can Google possibly think the best way to push the WebM format is to drop it from a moderately low-share browser when support for it across the web is in its infancy?? The very first hardware encoders for it are barely past vaporware status and you think that now is the right time for this? If you support WebM as a standard over h.264, you should be upset with Google for mucking this up so badly.

I'll believe Google's heart is in this when they start double-encoding YouTube with h.264 and WebM, improve the WebM codec so it's not inferior to h.264, and release free tools for encoding/decoding that don't take 20 times longer than h.264. Until then, I'll just assume this is a way to prop up Adobe and try and keep Android's primary competitive advantage over iOS alive a bit longer.

Todd Dominey said...

While it may suck in the short term (especially since some were already treating h.264/html5 as a done deal), Google's stance is the right one in the long run. If waiting a few more years is what's required in order for the web to have a truly open video codec, then it'll be worth it.

Andreas Kuckartz said...

Those who demand support for H.264 act against Open Source software.

Those people can use proprietary software such as Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Internet Explorer but they should leave us alone.

Jonny said...

Pathetic.

We all know what you're doing.

Nintendo Maniac 64 said...

I knew Steve Job's reality distortion field was powerful, but I never realized it was THIS powerful.

Don't back down Google - stick to your guns.

Chris Price said...

I don't understand what people aren't grasping about this announcement. Firefox, with a significant marketshare, will NEVER support h.264 for the video tag, so videos would always have to be encoded twice, once for h.264 and another for Firefox (and Opera).

Even with the situation right this second, how many formats are needed to support the video tag in every browser that has the capability? At least 2.

Google is trying to reduce that to one, and it is the right decision.

Nintendo Maniac 64 said...

Clarification for those that don't get it:

I'm supportive of what Google's doing here.

Jeff Geerling said...

I have already commented on this elsewhere, but here are the actions I will take going forward:

1. I am switching back to Safari, based on my protest of Chrome's decision to remove H.264 support.

2. I am going to switch the two sites I started using HTML5's video element on back to using jPlayer/Flash for all browsers.

Thanks, Google, for setting the web back another 2-4 years, from implementing the HTML5 video tag...

HR said...

All google has done is stalled use the <video> tag and mainstream adoption of html5 for the next few years. Definitely not open.

I'm seriously disappointed in google. Quit the politics and support both WebM and H.264.

Raj said...

Hey Google, can we expect open replacements for USB, 802.11 wifi, IEEE 1394, etc in the near future?

b said...

The video tag is irrelevant anyway, especially with WebM.

rpgobjects said...

I support this move. You can't build an open web with propriety codex.

Flash is an add-on so I don't see the same connection. But I would be in favor of dropping that as well. I disable it anyway.

Brent Buford said...

Indefensible positions generate euphemistic explanations. To wit: "we're joining others in the community to invest in WebM." Fine, but that doesn't dictate dropping support for h.264. Actively shutting out h.264 is a political and strategic decision that has nothing to do with open technology principles, and offers no tangible benefits to users (since when is removing options "open"?) Spare us the doubletalk. Google. You're starting to sound like politicians.

Michael Robellard said...

If you read the article, what Google said was you where already unable to use the video tag with confidence because there is already a split between h.264 and WebM/Theora becuase the other open source browsers won't use patent encumbered video codecs. and MPEG-LA won't give up the patents. So no matter what Chrome does h.264 will never play in Mozilla or Opera, so even if Chrome continues to include h.264 You still need to provide an alternative for those browsers.

As someone pointed out, even if all the desktop computers in the world switch to WebM or Theora you still won't have a homogeneous environment because all the mobile devices and hardware decoders around the world have hardware support for h.264 not webM.

These are the dangers of algorithm patents in the modern world especially when standards that everyone wants to use are patent encumbered.

The problem here is h.264 not Google

Ec5618 said...

Copied from Chris Price's comment above:


I don't understand what people aren't grasping about this announcement. Firefox, with a significant marketshare, will NEVER support h.264 for the video tag, so videos would always have to be encoded twice, once for h.264 and another for Firefox (and Opera).

Even with the situation right this second, how many formats are needed to support the video tag in every browser that has the capability? At least 2.

Google is trying to reduce that to one, and it is the right decision.

Alex said...

I feel for the Apple iOS devices that are tied to h.264 as a format. However in my world of FLOSS software I can't use or distribute binaries that support this patent encumbered format. So I applaud what Google is doing in making this stand for an open baseline for the tag.

Issues surrounding MP3/AAC and Flash are also things that need to be discussed for an open web but it's no reason not to support this step for the emerging tag.

Well done Google.

Alan said...

Anyone who criticizes this move should read Opera's take on this.

http://my.opera.com/haavard/blog/2011/01/13/openness

Spindel said...

http://www.interoperabilitybridges.com/html5-extension-for-wmp-plugin

Mike said...

Google, don't do this. THIS IS EVIL!

On paper, Google is taking a principled stand in favor of open technologies. But they’re not really. First, WebM is not truly an open technology because it almost certainly uses patents owned by MPEG-LA or its members. Right now, the patent holders are ignoring it because it’s too small to bother with. We’ve seen this tactic many times before (for example, NTP vs. RIM): bide your time until a lot of people are using the infringing software and then hit it with a massive lawsuit for maximum profit. WebM is its own patent trap, and Google refuses to indemnify users against possible claims further down the road. If they were certain it was IP-clean then why hesitate to provide that protection? Clearly they don’t want that unknown, possibly large liability on their balance sheet.

Iein GV said...

I continue to believe this is a terrible idea. This is bad for everyone.

There is a good breakdown in this post.... http://www.subfurther.com/blog/2011/01/13/an-encoder-is-not/

Like others, I have removed chrome from my systems. I am now using Safari. Please reconsider.

voiceofthefan said...

Ummm...OK ... Can we call bullshit on this?

Krakowian said...

I like how you ask "yes or no" questions, and then proceed to answer without giving either a yes or a no. That, in a word, is called obfuscation. It means you don't really want to answer the question. Proper form would have you say yes or no, and then proceed to give your reasons. To not do that totally undercuts potential trust in your statement. Let's face it, you are doing what you are doing for Google and Google alone--not for the end user. Can you answer this question yes or no? Or are you too cowardly?

johndrinkwater said...

Happy with your decision, Google.

Unhappy with all the inconsiderate users posting here, throwing their toys out of the pram because they don’t understand what their parents are telling them. Read the post again, comprehend, understand, move on.

Mapper99 said...

How much does Google Chrome cost?

Hmmm...guess I better stop complaining right now...

cheatar said...

Horrible move. Think about all the devices with H.264 hardware support built in already: TVs, phones, PCs, etc. Holding back H.264 from the tag by cutting out native support is foolish.

Steko said...

"but to the next great video startup and those in emerging markets these fees stifle innovation."

And being dependent on Adobe to provide a working and secure Flash player for a platform doesn't stifle innovation?

kwe said...

Bad decision Google. Stop expecting us to believe it's about 'Open' or 'Innovation'.

Michael said...

Wow, really shocked that so many people just don't get it.

H.264 is patent encumbered. WebM MIGHT use patents held by MPEG-LA, but no one's gone to court yet to actually PROVE it. What Google is doing is basically take a stance that is no longer "on the fence" but instead has jumped to the side that Mozilla and Opera are already on. As many have mentioned before, Firefox was NEVER (repeat NEVER) going to support H.264 for the video tag.

Again, Firefox was NEVER going to support H.264 for the video tag in HTML5.

Again, Firefox was NEVER going to support H.264 for the video tag in HTML5.

Do we get it now? Google isn't the ONLY one taking this stance. Now it's Apple and Microsoft that are the hold outs.

Also, Flash is NOT a closed standard. The SWF format is open and ANYONE can write their own writer/player for the format, just no one besides Adobe has. This seems to be something that a lot of people forget. Yes, Adobe is the most well known creator of Flash tools, but the standard isn't closed by a long shot.

I personally like the fact that Google is taking this stance, all those boycotting Chrome and going to Safari, well nice to know you don't really understand what's going on here. I really don't care if it's WebM or Theora, either one is fine by me. But the HTML5 should include an open video format that isn't encumbered by patents.

girishw said...

Enough with the marketing spin! Stop pretending that this is about openness and innovation. This is about advancing Google's competitive interests.

JoeT said...

Many thoughtful (and goof-us-y) comments show that there are some very smart folks coming down on both sides of this issue. In my heart however, this looks(to me) like Google choosing where to be 'open' based mostly on business considerations.

Free and fast and stable is hard to leave, but I also will be un-installing Chrome and going back to Safari only.

I don't want Silverlight or Flash, and effectively this will force me to use these browser plug-ins if I stick with Chrome, and will leave me high and dry on any iOS device if a given video provider decides to go WebM only based on Google's massive industry presence.

Parting comment: M$ became a monopolistic presence in the 80s and 90s and had a good share of evil intent. Google (IMO) has less evil intent, perhaps much less, but is pragmatically speaking now a bigger monopoly than M$ was. In the end, it doesn't matter how you got there, a monopoly must be broken up and/or de-clawed.

OP said...

I think this is great news for the web. I just don't understand why so many are negative.

Go Google!

rsdio said...

I, like many others, simply do not believe Google's stated reasons for changing the video formats that they support in Chrome. I still believe that you are merely trying to undermine the HTML5 video tag and prop up Flash, or you are trying to exercise an unreasonable amount of control on web standards, or at least are not acting on the behalf of the web community as a whole. None of it adds up, and this, along with Google's neutering of net neutrality, is making me seriously consider never using any of your products again. That is a serious statement, since my email and some important web applications are hosted by Google, and it will take a lot of work to move to a new platform.

Boo.

Mikhail Kozlov said...

If do not like software why use it? It is not like Google holding a gun to somebody's head and forces them to use Chrome.
If you really want to get message to Google, stop using/downloading Chrome. It is that simple.

Ian Betteridge said...

"I, for one, welcome the change to WebM. Lets just hope Apple (who is in the MPEG consortium) joins and adapts iOS for WebM."

Apple can't use WebM.

Google's licensing terms for WebM include a clause which revokes the license should any licensee sue Google, claiming that WebM violates its patents.

That clause also covers "agents" for those patents. By licensing WebM, Apple would either have to remove its patents from the AVC/H.264 patent pool, or MPEG LA (as an "agent" of Apple) would never be able to sue Google.

Nintendo Maniac 64 said...

The fact that so many people are, as they say, "going back to Safari" only proves the point that we have a vocal minority of Apple fans.

Nobody in their right mind would have been using Safari except for those that worship Steve Jobs (either from intentionally using it or just having a Mac in the first place and just using what's already installed)

Even businesses still using IE have more valid reasons to use it than non-Apple fanboys using Safari!

Jeremy said...

I echo earlier comments. This reply to the criticisms of Google's move does not address how hypocritical it is to support Flash and AAC while dropping H.264. While in the long term an open and unencumbered codec is preferrable, you can simply support both for now, Google, just like you've been doing.

This move is about Google trying to push video producers to support WebM -- it's that simple.

You said...

So yesterday you said that you were for 'open'. But when people realized that WebM is not an open standard of any kind, and Flash is proprietary, you just come out and bluntly say you are supporting Flash. Now why not just say it's because Flash is easier to monetize video with than to make up grand tales of good will. Did people who got fired from BP PR get hired at Google?

Senthilkumar Peelikkampatti Muthusamy said...

Thank you Google for webm and those naysayer will see the open web once they clear of their mind. So, in this respect,
1) When will webm hardware accl in Android?
2) Why Intel is absent in the supporter list?
Any way those will fall in line with webm when we move on and I appreciate the move and coming weeks we will see big support from Android, youtube (which push apple iOS no other options than adapt it) etc.
I am not considering Microsoft in a big way as they become follower and they would follow you soon.

vbonline said...

First of all, if you read carefully you notice that Chrome will continue to be able to play H.264 (via the bundled flash plugin). Google does NOT remove support for H.264 from Chrome, but ONLY for the HTML5 video tag.

Results will be:

- Throwing a lifeline to Adobe Flash (a foe of a foe must be a friend).

- Giving their own customers a sub-par experience by letting them watch video via plugin instead of native HTML5.

- Hindering the propagation of a standard (HTML5 video tag).

Don't be evil, be consistent.

If you want to be consistent, than remove mp3 and Flash.

And don't try to sell a business decision in the name of "Openness".

Joe said...

why pull support for H.264 but not MP3?

adamwill said...

It's amazing how badly people manage to misread this.

One, Flash. Flash and the tag are completely different. Flash is something that exists already and is in use on zillions of sites. Google doesn't like it, just as much as Apple doesn't like it. But preventing the use of Flash wouldn't be of any tangible benefit. It's not going to magically make all those Flash sites disappear. They're out there, so they have to be handled; just like sites with terrible atrocities against existing HTML standards, thanks to years of IE dominance, have to be handled, so modern browsers handle them.

The tag is *new*. As this blog post points out, almost no-one uses it yet. Its usage is just starting to be defined. With three major browser players - Mozilla, Opera, and Google - standardizing on WebM, that gives a significant boost to the de facto use of WebM as the preferred codec, which would be a good thing for everyone. There isn't a gigantic existing base of h.264 encoded tagged content out there to deal with, so there's no need to support h.264 to be compatible with it. It's not a case of dealing with a bad situation that already exists; in this case, Google has the opportunity to help prevent a bad situation occurring in the future. (And if you want to know why a patent-encumbered 'standard' for the Web is a bad thing, go look up 'unisys' 'gif' on your favourite search engine).

Two, how is 'removing choice' open? When one of the choices is a very bad choice for openness. If Google supports both h.264 and WebM, that tilts the balance of browsers in favour of h.264, and leaves us in danger of no-one ever bothering to encode anything in WebM, all the web's content winding up in h.264, and it being impossible for any open source browser to implement it (as it's impossible to pay a patent license fee in a way that is compatible with an open source license, unless the patent holder accepts a one-time flat payment in exchange for granting the entire population of the planet full rights to the patent), or for any startup to afford to do anything interesting with it. All sorts of cool things have grown out of the Internet and the web because they are based on truly open standards; anyone can read the standards and write and distribute software that implements them. No-one has to 'pay to play'. If we accept web 'standards' which cost money to implement, how is the next Google going to happen, or the next Firefox, or the next Youtube...? All of these started out as shoestring operations.

Steven Fisher said...

Reading this, I have just one question:

Are you really delusional enough to think this post is true, or is this spin? A lot of the core arguments in here are blatant falsehoods.

Nintendo Maniac 64 said...

Reading this, I have just one question:

Are you really delusional enough to think everything a company does is spin? A lot of the core arguments in here are blatant falsehoods.

animalalfonso said...

so... your propping up flash and destroying what little progress HTML5 has made by using an inferior format?

Nintendo Maniac 64 said...

^^^ Because video quality means EVERYTHING amirite?

zekus said...

Go Gooogle GOOOOOO! :)

Reply to stupid is just stupid. If h264 supporters cant get it, they just cant but they have to face the future of webm anyway :)

vbonline said...

Take a video provider point of view:

If I encode in H.264 who will be able to watch:

- the corporate world (XP, IE6, Flash)
- Home Users (Win7 and IE9, or XP, IE6 and Flash, or Firefox and Flash)
- Android
- IOS
- Mac
- Linux (Chrome)

Thats 99% of the market.

If I encode in WebM who can't see video (right now):

- Corporate world
- Android*
- IOS
- Mac

If I want to monetize my service I choose H.264 for encoding and storing video.

What will change in this due to this decision? Nothing.

You only get enduser pissed of (as you can see in the comments), because you force them to continue to use Flash (If they are using the new browser you want to push) and because they don't buy the "openness" spin of the decision.

* I know Gingerbread will have WebM support, but there are 50 mil + Android devices out there without Gingerbread (and without an upgrade option).

dfraz said...

This update doesn't address any of the real-world concerns surrounding this move. It is tantamount to putting a stake in the ground and maintaining a position on ideological grounds rather than practical considerations.

For one, content providers are not going to just jump on the WebM train after years of a suitable codec. They will continue to use Flash as a way to serve their H.264 video, which is HEAVILY proprietary, thereby completely negating the intent of supporting both open-source and HTML5. Furthermore, WHEN publishers fall back on Flash, they will be doing so using the codec at the heart of Flash, H.264.

It also does not address the patent concerns surrounding WebM, the same issue that has dogged other formats for years. Asking companies with deep pockets like Apple and Microsoft to back this is a joke, as they are the sitting ducks should a patent dispute arrive.

Finally, nobody actually believes WebM is a superior codec from a technical standpoint. Google appears disinterested, as is often the case, that they are propping up an inferior product (two actually, Flash and WebM) at the expense of consumers.

Keep in mind this is without even mentioning the hypocrisy of supporting Flash and other proprietary formats.

glennmore said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

dfraz said...

Furthermore, Google needs to address how they think it is right as a product vendor (for shipping Chrome) to take away support for a codec that was previously built-in. Users don't manually update Chrome, meaning they will open it up and lose HTML5 support that they preferred to using Flash. Taking away support and functionality is not a consumer-friendly move, whether you want to join with your open-source brethren or not.

todus said...

Great step to chivvy the community to single standard. Will like to see mp3 support removed as well.

Apple and Microsoft had trouble supporting Ogg else we would be on one audio format as all future independent development would have gone that way automatically.

As a developer I have little interest in duplicating files, storage and coding to address each of the variations.

Steko said...

"Also, Flash is NOT a closed standard. The SWF format is open and ANYONE can write their own writer/player for the format, just no one besides Adobe has. This seems to be something that a lot of people forget."

We 'forget' it because it's not really true to begin with.
http://daringfireball.net/2010/05/flash_almost_as_open_as_office

J said...

"H.264 is what we need. Stop slowing innovation."

H.264 is what will slow innovation, without question. I can't believe there are so many people here who actually want a proprietary, for-profit codec as a standard for web video.

Kevin O'Shea said...

Fast forward to two years from now, and there's going to be one of two outcomes.

1. WebM still is nowhere near h.264, and all Google's done is make everyone's life a little less pleasant by complicating what could/should have been simple.

2. WebM actually gains enough share to get sued for the h.264 patents it almost certainly infringes, and now does need a license, meaning anyone who wants to keep using it eats the added complexity but no longer gets to realize the benefits.

Something like WebM is a great idea. However, h.264 is already entrenched, and WebM doesn't offer enough of a benefit to ever change that.

Start working on the next codec beyond h.264. The one that offers some significant technical/performance benefits in addition to being royalty-free, and then you'll have my full support.

In the meantime, you've officially crossed the line to evil. I will now look to not support you whenever possible. I do not want to go back to the days of multiple codecs and never knowing which player would be able to support which format.

Goodbye, Chrome.

Ejferg said...

I LOVE THIS MOVE!!!!

mini me said...

Ridiculous! Well written argument, but obviously they are hiding the fact their codec has the same potential patent issues and is the devil you don't know. Regardless of what is ideal they are flat out lying by saying their technology won't have legal issues. We don't need Chrome. Google, you've lost me for good this time. Hello Safari!

kmlx said...

jesus, 95% of the posters have no clue about H.264 but still think it's ok. guys, there's wikipedia out there plus, there are reasons behind not using h.264. and if you are a dev, then it's even easier: coding for IE? gone with the wind...

solca said...

I applaud Google's move, we all know it's the right thing, same as web standards that are OPEN we need an OPEN video codec for such standards. Good work Google!

Gerard said...

Grow a spine h264 supporters.

In the long run it will be good for you; just take your medicine and the pain will pass.

Open video support will allow huge innovations now and into the future.
Goggle is doing you a favour by trying to force the hand of hardware makers to support the codec too.

You see too little opportunity in the future and think the shit you have from h264 is so fantastic. An open standard will allow huge innovation.

It will also allow google to control the video based ads too :)

SmithTenor said...

*drags Chrome to trash*

*empties trash*

Problem solved!

Mikko said...

h264 is a dead end

Eric J. Gruber said...

Google, you guys do what you have to do.

Meanwhile, I'll do the same. My home and work computers and switched from Chrome to Safari and their primary browsers, and I'm moving away from your products because of your behavior within the last year.

I'm not going to provide two options for video encoding. All my cameras encode H.264 out of the box. I want as little work as possible, so I'll use that video, mark it up once in HTML5 and be done.

The people you're hurting here are Chrome users. But you don't seem to care about that.

Peter Kevin Reeves said...

We finally got Apple to compromise on QuickTime and Microsoft to compromise on Windows Media. It practically took an act of God for the industry to agree on a unified standard.

Finally, we have a standard that works for Mac, Windows and even on phones and tablets. Hardware companies are finally able to make low power video chips, because they have a solid standard to build upon.

We were so close. Now Google decides to ruin everything by being a petulant child, and saying "No, I don't wanna play!"

Unless Google plans on dropping support for JPEG, GIF and all the other common technologies that are also patented, their "We're doing this to be open" argument just doesn't fly.

If there is any justice in the universe, this will destroy Google Chrome as a viable browser choice. The industry decided on H.264 a long time ago. Catch up.

johnnyB said...

WebM is fine, but this explanation is bullshit.

Do as you like with your products, but spare me the whining about patents, and don't make me laugh by citing Opera.

You're removing h.264 from Chrome. That makes it a lesser browser for users who want to play h.264.

You do not have the pull you think you have. You're just contributing to the generally crappy web video experience for consumers... Except of course for those who go back to Flash. So much for lofty principles.

If you cared about openness so much, there are much better ways to support it than by making yourself less relevant.

But you paid a lot for that "open" codec, by buying the freaking company that made it, and you want that to have been a worthwhile investment. We all see how it is.

You're trying too hard, Google, and you're ruining the party.

misol said...

As this logic, Chrome would not support GIF images...

Cheese Lover Bob said...

This is the stupidest thing in the world. The only group it serves is Google, under the disguise of being more “open.” MPEG LA declared H.264 permanently royalty-free — last August. http://www.macrumors.com/2010/08/26/mpeg-la-declares-h-264-standard-permanently-royalty-free/

Patrick said...

Do no Evil my ass. We all know what production software creates the majority of your damn ads.
Flash! And how do you make most of your money
ads! There was a time I held Google in high regard.
Those days are over! You should change your name to Screwgle.

Christopher Lord said...

I am sympathetic to the removal of H264 (it's just GIF all over again), but I think the folks pointing out that Flash is still embedded are making a good point. Let's go remove the embedded plugins too before getting up on the high horse.

markc said...

Wow, talk about short sighted comments, you pro-h.264 people just don't get it even when it's explained in black and white!

Think app-store for video and your local TV station-like news/sport/doco productions (forget dollywood). In the coming decades, think millions of small time video producers and how they get remunerated for their efforts when not using non-TV/cable broadcast channels. App-store-like payfor video will become ubiquitous and the PRODUCERS of video using h.264 on windows/mac systems are going to have to pay for the privilege and pass the cost on to their consumers. People who use webm will be able to produce video without restriction and licensing fees (think 3rd world) and mash it up freely with other similarly free technologies... that's called innovation using the kind of freedom that got us to where so many of you, on the net, seem to take for granted today.

Thank you Google for spending the 100s of millions of dollars it takes to get a totally free a/v codec out there. I'm totally with you and looking forward to a drm and monopoly free free a/v future!

Will Iam said...

As a Linux user I'll fully support this decision!

Not really related but looking at the Blu-Ray format and what damage it's copy protection has done, I'm so glad I (hopefully) wont see that again.

WebM (or any other open format) is the right way to go. For a free web for all of us (including the haters here).

superabe said...

Great move. H264 is a minefield waiting to be stepped on. The short sighted may complain about this propping up Flash and killing the video tag, but in the long run this will prove to be the best thing to happen to the video tag. Kudos for having the long-term vision.

Kevin O'Shea said...

To those who think this is great news, answer this:

1. Aside from being royalty-free, is there *ANY* benefit to WebM?

2. What makes you think it will remain royalty-free, when it appears clear that it may already infringe on multiple MPEG-LA patents?

What will you say if by some miracle WebM actually manages to become a real standard people depend on and then has to charge royalties (or can't be licensed at all) if it loses legal challenges in court?

markc said...

1. WebM has a vibrant truly open development future and may end up being a technically better codec than H264.

2. What makes you think *all* MPEG-LA patents are not based on earlier VC* technology. If MPEG-LA launch a patent attack on WebM and the courts find even one patent that can't be fully validated then they may find themselves with a dead duck and a block on all sales and revenues of all H264 products.

Do you think "they" want to take the risk and/or why haven't "they" tried already?

pankaj said...

+1 google
you may not always succeed, but i admire you for trying

Alvaro Osvaldo López said...

Google, please return H.264 support to Chrome. With this action, you are effectively killing (future) web browsing in Linux desktops, because it was the only legal H.264-capable browser.

Please, revert this mistake!!!! =(
I am sure I'm not the only one, so reconsider this, please!!!

sorry for my english

dimmer said...

"and may end up being a technically better codec than H264."

You realize just how illogical this statement is, right? Any X can end up being better than Y. But the clue here is that you think that, maybe, years to come, WebM might be equal to what H.264 has TODAY!

The bullshit about how H.264 is patented reeks. We know and have legal guidance that MPEG-LA won't fuck with us. WebM, on the other hand, is a pure crapshoot. For the earlier poster who suggested that if WebM doesn't get sued successfully for one infraction then the whole thing is fine really, REALLY, needs to do a little research.

It's embarrassing that Google have decided to fuck up HTML5 for their own purposes -- but not unexpected. Overall, for users and their support teams it's a blessing: no need to support Chrone, Firefox, Oprah, or any other HTML4 detrius.

Adonis said...

Hey no fair. I am an apple lover but I actually agree with this move by Google. I think Apple should be working with Google directly on this. I'll be glad when the Apple/Google wars are over.

Jeff J said...

Very good post thanks
Its all good from what i can see, and wuold like to know when Google TV will play WEBM. We are working code in both flash and HTML5 for it.

WEBM actually encodes pretty quickly, is batchable and uses less bandwidth.

BTW - very funny the Save Video As link in youtube HTML5 WEBM pointing to "Never gonna Give you Up"
My LAB Post: http://ctndigital.com/ctnd/lab/vp8-webm/

Seems these Safari boys are venomous as its gets... please dont visit my sites, it will crash your browser.

Dhruv Parashar said...

Stop BSing and support everything on Chrome. If you can't then you shouldn't be in the browser business. Go back to improving your search engine. This is dumb!

Akinity said...

Strategically, this move may have come a few months late. If the recently departed MS execs had still been around, we have might soon be hearing MS announce WebM support in IE9, leaving Apple all alone. But now, Ballmer alone gets to be king-maker. Rather a nice position to be in and he'll surely negotiate heavy concessions from the winning side. Which, looking at Chrome vs IE's growth trajectories I guess would be WebM - sooner rather than later.

James said...

After reading an astounding amount of comments, on this post, as well as the previous one, I did not read them all, many were repeats of the same vein, however I did read many of them. I then reread the two post, trying to understand the cost to all this, and what would possibly be the real cost to the user.
In my work I provide the answers to users all day, every day, on what they need to do to use their hardware, they do not know what software is. They want to know how to use their hardware. This will not affect users, maybe it will some, but not most users I interact with, they do not know what a codec is, what a standard is, what an OS is for that matter. If I ask them what Operating Software they are using, they may tell me Windows, but most of them would answer Dell, or HP, because they do not know what an OS is. By the way, the others that didn’t tell me their brand of PC or device (Droid, iPhone, etc.), they would tell me Firefox, IE, or some other browser, as that is what they use, they do not use their OS. In the very near future, for you software and content creators out there near future is the next two years, this will be a moot point. Users will get their content as they get it, if they can’t get it on their chosen devices, well then they will not care enough about that content to care what happens. Most of you keep saying that Google does not care about uses, well you would be completely wrong there, they care only about users. If you are thinking they are not thinking about users that create content, well to some degree yes they are handing the developers a bit of a ball here, and those developers will adapt or they will cease to be relevant. Developers are not users, the people who I work with are users, they use software but have no idea what flash is (it is something they have to download every once in a while to make their computer work), or what a codec is, just another thing that they have to download, or what any of this stuff is, they only know what works and what doesn’t. When WebM standard becomes the standard they will use it, and if their device does not accept it, they will buy on that does, not because Google said so, but because it is what works. What these content developers are not looking at is that all those companies that paid you to encode their video content in H.264 the last couple of years, well they will pay you to encode it in WebM as well, because they want users, not techs, techs don’t matter, they want consumers. Please remember that you may be a developer, but if you have no audience you have no revenue model. Before you blame Google, look to the real cause of your distress, your fear that you will be forgotten because you didn’t want to move on with the rest of your potential users. (the long version)

Adonis said...

I don't understand why so many Apple lovers think this is a bad decision. I think this is a welcomed decision and will help push the web forward. Apple should find away to get hardware support for WebM in the iOS ecosystem. I am am Apple lover who is in full agreement with Google on this.

James said...

After reading an astounding amount of comments, on this post, as well as the previous one, I did not read them all, many were repeats of the same vein, however I did read many of them. I then reread the two post, trying to understand the cost to all this, and what would possibly be the real cost to the user.
In my work I provide the answers to users all day, every day, on what they need to do to use their hardware, they do not know what software is. They want to know how to use their hardware. This will not affect users, maybe it will some, but not most users I interact with, they do not know what a codec is, what a standard is, what an OS is for that matter. If I ask them what Operating Software they are using, they may tell me Windows, but most of them would answer Dell, or HP, because they do not know what an OS is. By the way, the others that didn’t tell me their brand of PC or device (Droid, iPhone, etc.), they would tell me Firefox, IE, or some other browser, as that is what they use, they do not use their OS. In the very near future, for you software and content creators out there near future is the next two years, this will be a moot point. Users will get their content as they get it, if they can’t get it on their chosen devices, well then they will not care enough about that content to care what happens. (the long version)

You said...

YOU MAY TAKE MY NATIVE H.264 CODEC IN CHROME, BUT YOU CAN'T TAKE MY CAPS LOCK KEY!!! :)

mgiuca said...

By the way, to anyone who left the comment "removing user choice is against openness", you missed the entire point of open. Open means developers can put what they want into their software, and leave what they want out. If I write a tool, I am not *required* to support your favourite feature. In fact, if I do support your favourite feature, I am *allowed* to take it out. It's my tool.

What makes my tool open is the fact that if you really wanted to, you could put it back in.

If you want to use Google Chrome, you get the features Google provides. If you want to take the source code to Chrome and put in H.264 (and pay the MPEG-LA their ridiculous license fees), go ahead. Google isn't constraining you, only the MPEG-LA. Maybe then you will realise the ongoing costs of H.264 and be more sympathetic towards Google's position.

mgiuca said...

@acrylicstyle.com: "Will we see a new audio codec from you guys like WebM for video" -- Yes, WebM is also an audio format (it's just a container for Vorbis, which is the same audio codec used in the video, and in OGG music files, and doesn't infringe any patents). You can use the MIME type audio/webm to serve audio-only WebM files with the HTML tag.

Wei Hu said...

I don't usually hear bullshit from Google. But this is a good one, even better than what the MS IE team can do.

T.R. said...

Anyone who thinks this is Google trying to "break the Steve Jobs reality distortion field" doesn't have a clue. This is about Google being evil (again) and propping up an old and out of touch company (read Adobe) and their Flash product.

Grab a clue Google.

PS no I am not an Apple Fan boy, just anti Flash

Jeremiah said...

Thanks for reinforcing Flash's dominance. Web developers everywhere will really appreciate your making their jobs more difficult.

You're placing ideology over practicality. H.264 was designed and ratified through two long established community processes by codec geniuses. It's not royalty free, but it's also not irrationally expensive. Get over it.

The most used browser on Windows (IE) and Mac (Safari), will support H.264. I'm done with Chrome.

Rich said...

"To companies like Google, the license fees may not be material, but to the next great video startup and those in emerging markets these fees stifle innovation."

And all this time I thought it was the storage and bandwidth that kept YouTube from profitability. Do you honestly think that the licensing of H.264 video encoding is stifling innovation?

If Google had made this announcement by switching YouTube's encoding to WebM, then perhaps I would buy this "openness" BS. They didn't. The question is why?

One last thing.

Several people have asked "Why not remove GIF support?" Ironically, WebM is following the exact same path as GIF.

CompuServe released GIF as a free and open specification in 1987. GIF soon became a world standard, and also played an important role in the internet community.

The GIF Controversy

You see, GIF was open source. It was the LZW (compression) algorithm it used that violated patents.

Even if Google's intentions are honorable, they may hurt the web more than help it with this move. Better the devil you know...

Martin said...

Nice oneeee! About to donate my sperm to Google, that's how much I love the fact that rather than paying for Android H.264 I'll get video free on my site! So long suckazz, long live Google :)

vladas10 said...

Chrome is not the only free browser compelling and Bing is getting better everyday.

see ya

Hachre said...

This post clarifies some points and the intention behind this move however I still don't understand why Google doesn't broadly move YouTube to WebM first before taking the H264 option out of their browsers support.

Hachre said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

Lemuel said...

Steve Jobs will finally eat his own pride! harharhar!

Apple will eventually embrace WebM whether they like it or not.

Go Chromium!! you have my full support on this one.

Jonathan said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

Jonathan said...

Check. Your move Apple/MPEG-LA. Now just totally open up H.264 and this can all be over.

MK said...

Until now, I've only ever seen people threaten to "switch back to Firefox" when something in Chrome didn't go their way. Now suddenly it's all about Safari, because Firefox is with Chrome on this one (or vice-versa, as it were). It's hilarious!

Firefox + Chrome + Opera make up a third of the browser market. IE8 + Safari amount to another third. But the elephant in the room is the last third who're still on IE6/7, almost 2 years after IE8's release. Those people won't be capable of any HTML5 video for a good long time, which makes the H.264/WebM struggle kinda moot as far as retiring Flash. There's going to be plenty of time for the codec fight to resolve itself before that last 1/3 budges, so personally, I'm gonna chill out and grab some popcorn.

Thanks for backing Firefox and Opera on this one, Google. Now there's a fighting chance.

Hachre said...

The third using outdated browsers is not part of the audience targetted by this whole debate anyway.

Those are either lazy companies or outdated private computers with users that don't care about the latest and greatest web tech.

Aethec said...

I guess doing like IE and Safari on Mac is too difficult?
Use whatever codecs the platform has got, and install yours if needed?

Sacrificing everything in name of cross-platform compatibility is not a good idea.

dan said...

Painful. But the right decision.

Bertrand said...

That's a crappy move, for a lot of reason:

- H.264 is widely used, not only on the Web, but also in all the industry (BluRay, VOD...etc).
- H.264 is technically superior to WebM, it's visible with naked eyes!
- H.264 IS an open standard. An open standard is a standard that can be implemented by anyone, having to pay royalties or not doesn't make it suddenly a closed standard.

Do you know that the GPL license, and most if not all Free Software license DO ALLOW to ask for money for a Free Software? This means that Google could ask for royalties for the WebM codec even though it's under a free software license.
Asking money for a software is not incompatible,with openness!
Also WebM is illegal as it infringes numerous patents various codecs in the industry.

Of course H.264 is not as open as WebM, as it's closed source, but it can be implemented by anyone, this is enough to make it an open standard. Also even though it's closed source, it's driven by an organization, called MPEG LA, and anyone in the industry can ask to be part of it and contribute to the evolution of the H.264 standard (and derivatives).

So you see, H.264 may not be as open as WebM, it's still a lot open and it is a lot more supported in the video industry than this Google made WebM codec. And H.264 creation has been contributed by major actors of the video industry making it the best video codec out there.

Google should have rather joined the MPEG LA organization and contributed to the H.264 standard instead of making it's own internal made codec, that only openness is to be open source and under fre software license, but not supported by any major video industry actors (sorry, but opera, firefox and google are not on the video industry, but only the web industry), and is technically inferior compared to H.264.

The choice of a video codec, being for the web or any other media, should never be done by the media actors, but by the video industry actors, because that's them who have the expertise to determine what is best to create and broadcast videos.

So Google, you suck on his one, you are acting just like Microsoft, you are taking advantage of your dominant position in the Web industry to force users to use a technology you choose that is the best, instead of deciding with the whole industry around a table. That's a monopoly bad behavior!

leaonfm said...

Google goes to hell, if you want the to adopt the open technology so badly, then why in the world a default installation of Chrome bundled with Flash Player? As a matter of fact, Chrome is the ONLY web browser that bundled with Flash player.

Me said...

At first my stand was against google but after reading many comments, i realized that i was being stupid (like you) for dissing google on this move.
I think i have understood and i support google now.
By just being an end user, you really are in no position to judge this.

Think for yourself guys.
Understand both the sides before you take your (insignificant) stand.

--
PS: Not a chrome user, not one in the least. I have always been and will be a firefox user.

Lars Bjerregaard said...

Fully agree with your decision and vision Google. Well done, hang tight! Don't be put off by shortsightednes, scaremongering or the patentlawyers and profitmakers.

MANOJ TIRKEY said...

Great decision Google. Long Live Royalty Free Open Source. Web should be supported by open formats. If not open source, it should at least be free of cost like Adobe Flash. Down with royalties.

Edd said...

Have any of the people switching to safari 'in protest' considered the part web standards have played in making this switch effortless?

If we're going to push a baseline standard forward, it cannot be h.264 (that would preclude open source browsers and the W3C will not support royalty-demanding licenses).

Given the above, the hardware argument is irrelevant. We need to take some pain now to invest in the future of HTML5, which, let's not forget, is targetted at 2012.

Thanks google, for doing your part to push us forward. Try to think long term, people. Especially the Windows 7 "well firefox is OK, it has an h.264 plugin on one OS" crowd.

Hachre said...

The people posting here have to understand that it isn't that the contra side is about not supporting WebM at all.

We are uncertain if it is wise to get there by elimination of a well established option.

Google can by all means support WebM in their tag. If they want to support WebM they should:
- ensure it really is free of any patent issues
- push it by making it the default on YouTube and converting ALL video to it
- make sure there are tools available for all platforms to encode videos from popular formats into WebM

Once these things are established and people actually have a _chance_ to use WebM then they can go to the next step and remove H264 support.

The problem that we have is that this step seems very premature in the current state of WebM usability. And simply dropping support from a Browser won't change the minds of the people who are responsible for choosing a codec: the content creators.

Right now they don't even KNOW how to use WebM even if they wanted to - and this is the main problem right now.

verb3k said...

I support Google's decision. I am already offering my content in WebM and the results are really amazing!

Thank you Google for providing us with this amazing format. Short-sighted naggers will also thank you in the future.

Peace.

Edd said...

@Bertrand:

GPL software can charge, but it cannot carry license terms other than the GPL. That is why GPL h.264 software is a legal dead end, there's no way of licensing h.264 for one piece of software and its derivative works. It's also why GPL software is generally removed from Apple's app store.

Mozilla is not holding out because they can't afford the fee, it's that it would force all browsers based off firefox to be liable to charges too.

X264 and the like are open source implementations of h.264. Legally they're on shaky ground.

Terrin said...

Google you suck. First, your mantra is don't be evil, yet this move is based on nothing but greed. It benefits nobody but Google. You claim the move is to support open source, yet there is no mention of removing Flash, which is proprietary as it comes as Adobe controls the whole widget. Further, WebM obviously violates patents held by others. Second, Google gives nothing. Chrome is based on Apple's freely given rendering engine, yet Google is obviously trying to sock it to the company who essentially made it a player in this arena. Third, Google is a hypocrite. When Apple threatened to shut AdMob out of the iPhone, Google had a fit.

Apple is too nice and really seems to be the don't be evil company. I liked Chrome, but I just uninstalled it. It called home an awful lot anyway. Further, this one pains me a little, but I switched to Bing.

pn said...

Please don't do this Google. Compete on merits, not machinations. Support both codecs. At the very least, please stop torturing the word "open".

13r said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

13r said...

This only makes chrome users more pissed.
The web will continue to use h.264 and flash as a fallback for older browsers (and not h.264 supporting ones). As flash is 2 times slower in chrome than other browsers due to multiprocess architecture that will make more angry chrome users.

Every movie i have is h.264 encoded, 720p, 1080p, BDrips, HDrips, DVDrips... Its supported in hardware in computers, consoles, handhelds, smartphones, even embeded videoplayers for the TV.

I wont recode that videos again from h.264 to WebM, not only because is a lossless codec and I will be worst quality by all means, but because that will take me months 24h a day to recode...

Good luck with your crussade.

Robert said...

Cant Google let the marketplace decide? I mean H.264 is free to the end user but to browser vender's and enterprise they have to pay royalties. In the end these vender's and other paying customers will support Web M because of the cost associated with H.264 It just looks like Google is trying to tell people what they can and cannot do, Anyway you know people dont like that in the name of openness You need a marketing campaign for web M to sway people minds to web M and let You Tube support web M only In Chrome is one angle to take it. Reverse the Decision. allow time for WebM hardware decoders in phones and tablets then in about a year or to then change but now is not the time people minds and hardware infrastructural is not there yet

Robert said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

The Beast said...

It will be hilarious when the MPEG-LA gets a cease and desist against WebM for its infringement on large parts of the Phillips/Toshiba IP portfolio.

DeVet said...

I support Google on this. It is the right long term decision.

Scott Rose said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

Scott Rose said...

Google, you are so full of crap it is unbelievable. You will stop at nothing to screw over your users -- and the world -- forever.

This has NOTHING to do with open standards, but EVERYTHING to do with you making $$$ by selling advertisements.

This is explained in FULL COMPLETE DETAIL here:
http://tinyurl.com/5uylpht

Google's mission statement: DO ALL EVIL, ALL THE TIME.

Daniel said...

I think it's brilliant! Well done Google guys! Keep it up!!


Isn't it already enough that we get ripped off in life by various consortiums and companies; do we also have to get ripped off when it comes to the internet?

Sure, it's not the user who pays H.264 licence fees, it's the companies, but you can bet that it gets passed on back to us consumers through higher prices..

If all the browsers would adopt an open, free codec, content would be cheaper for people to produce and no matter what browser you used, you could view the content. That's how it should be.

Apple especially couldn't care less about consumers, only about ho much money they make, and H.264 licensing must be a big earner for them. Too bad for them; consumers ARE more important than money!

Hans Westerbeek said...

Thanks Google, it may take a while but in the end we will have a truly open video standard.

I do feel for the people that have massive amounts of video encoded in h.264. But they'll get over it eventually. Things change, that's life.

As a result, h.264 will simply fade away, as will flash because there will be less and less usecases where it is the only option, thanks to HTML5.

BugDave said...

Shame on you google.

Jeff Hobbs said...

Google: Will you be removing H.264 video support from Google TV? If not, why not?

SN said...

I'm tired of how Google knights itself with endless, meaningless yak about "open" and "free." Apparently it has learned that you can fool some the people all of the time through zombie like repetition. Meanwhile it firebombs all sorts of areas it wants to get into. At least Microsoft had the decency to wreck its competitors without qualm or cunning, like a good old fashion monopoly. No sure what to call Google. A rich boy?

<strong>Robert Mohns</strong> said...

I look forward to Chrome's continued support of open and unencumbered media formats. It will be awesome next month when Chrome replaces the closed JPEG standard with WebP, the closed MP3 and AAC specs with Ogg Vorbis, proprietary WAV in favor of FLAC, and the proprietary Flash in favor of HTML5. It will be a whole new day for openness. We'll build and test every web site and app twice, once for Open Google and once for everyone else. Right on!

Seriously, has Ian Hixie weighed in on this yet? Does he still work at Google these days? His blog hasn't been updated since April.

It's not adding WebM that I object to, it's the intentional fracturing of HTML5 video efforts that is so frustrating. Chrome spent two years as a standards-bearer; this is maddening. Why not support both WebM and H.264 until such time as MPEG-LA proves itself evil? That would be truly open.

Simon80 said...

Contrary to what some are saying, this moves the <video> tag forward, not backward. There is currently a stalemate between H.264 and Theora/WebM. It was never going to get resolved in favour of H.264 (plenty of other comments explain why), so by helping push momentum toward WebM, Google is offering a way forward that can actually be supported by all browsers royalty free.

If it's going to be a problem for you that the iPhone doesn't play WebM files, blame Apple for this, there's no reason they can't fix it. Even excuses about hardware acceleration don't hold water, they could just as easily implement a NEON optimized WebM decoder that performs adequately.

Kevin said...

Within almost 150 comments so far there are at least two which claim that they are video producers and/or publishers and only encode in h264.

Since this blog and discussion is only about the video tag, should we assume that those two companies are happy right now to only target 30% of the market and never will reach anything beyond 70% (older versions of any browser + Firefox + Opera)?

Or should we instead assume that they have a fallback anyway and are actually not effected at all by Google's decision but needed some excuse to rant?

bananaranha said...

Here's to another decade of Flash's dominance in online video...

Ahz said...

why you keep creating problems for developers :/ it took me 1 year to get fully experience with h.264 with other codecs to get best video output...and now...huh..the giant shits for others :(

jp said...

At the end of the day content providers are just going to use h.246 as it is the only format that plays everywhere. Native on iOS, IE, safari and using flash on firefox and chrome.

hebegeebee said...

Uninstalling Chrome. Too bad -- it was a pretty good browser.

David Adams said...

It's disingenuous to come here and "clarify" your earlier posts by ignoring the complaint. People aren't upset you are supporting WebM. They are upset you are dropping H.264. Yet you post here, and the first question you address is "why are you supporting WebM?" No one is asking that. You never address why you are dropping H.264, which is the question everyone is asking.

If you want HTML5 and the video tag to succeed, then you'd support as many formats as you can. Instead, you drop H.264 in the name of openness while still including the Flash plugin as an integral part of Chrome? Sorry, guys, if you're looking for credibility, you're failing.

If your intentions are as noble as you portray them to be, then you've come to some strange conclusions and your communications are miserable. The alternative explanation, the far simpler one, is that you're being disingenuous about your motives.

Either way this is a black mark on Chrome's reputation that will be hard to live down. This is not the way to build trust or credibility.

steve said...

These comments are the best example why the rest of the world thinks all Apple users are douche bags.

Please "go back to Safari" or better, just STFU and start behaving like an adult.

It is a shame that homosexuals have to live with so many prejudices just because you Apple boys love to act like big fat douches.

kittlaus said...

Lets see... what can Google do to stem the appeal of iPad this year (given ridiculous sales estimates). Hm... what if they re-encoded all YouTube content to a format that iOS devices can not view. Yeah that works! Do that and maybe they can sell more Android tablets.

kittlaus said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

BearBoy said...

Shame on Google.

Harry Pujols said...

H.264 has become as standard as much as .mp3, which has similar proprietary rights. This Google decision is only killing the tag. Everyone will still do everything in H.264, with a Flash player for Chrome and whoever doesn't support H.264 and H.264 for everybody else. Point is, the only thing this does is keep Flash around, not helping Web standards, not even helping Google's champion WebM. As a designer, I won't recommend Chrome for corporations and Web users.

Ralph said...

So....wow. I left IE some time ago for greener pastures. But this is really it for me. I'm switching back to IE and Safari as my browsers as soon as I get back to work. I feel that royalties, if levied fairly as I see h.264 to be are an important part of innovation too. Fair payment for a technology can drive that technology in ways that some freely available software never seems to be able to. How many people do you know use Linux as their desktop OS? Now how many of them do at home? It's not cohesive enough for the average person. It's not like Linux just came out yesterday, but after some years now no one could say it's been a success on the desktop, even though you can get it absolutely free. So I'll continue with my Linux servers, Windows and Mac desktops and avoid the browsers I was fond of for strictly IE and Safari.

Jason said...

@steve - you mean the millions of people who uses macs, iphones, and ipads are all douches becuase of a few posters here? kind of ridicoulous.

the fact is h.264 is an open standard as is used by just about all video hardware at this point. i think the reality is the Chrome browser will mean little in e grand scheme of all of the various devices that can view video (web or otherwise). this move by google to remove choice is ridiculous and their reasoning even moreso.

at least Firefox has been consistent since day one, video. AND audio.

the only thing i find amusing is that people seem to be ignoring the fact that it would be very easy for apple and/or microsoft to create a plugin for chrome AND firefox to address is issue. flash isnt the only option here.

Trigun said...

Google, the fact of the matter is this - It shouldn't necessarily be about what You Want. It should be about what your Users want.
And that overwhelming majority Want to retain h.264 Support via HTML5.

Your deflection is obvious, and we all know this has Nothing to do with "Openness" and all about pushing Your "WebM" codec on everyone, despite its inferiority.

If you don't want to ship an h264 decoder with Chrome - Fine. But at least do the next best thing & support it via the Host's System Decoders (ie. Windows 7 Media Foundation, etc).

Trigun said...

The thing is, h.264 Is the standard now (used in Internet Video, Cable/Satellite broadcasts, BluRay, etc), there is no going back until something Better comes along - WebM doesn't fulfill that.

There is no sense in dropping support for something so unanimously regarded as the best all-purpose lossy video codec in existence.

You can refuse to support it (in any form), but it's not going away. The only difference is that you've put it off on something else (Flash) to handle it for you. This is a step backwards as we all know.

What You have an obligation to do as a promoter of "Do no Evil" is to allow Us, the User the Choice of whether we want to use Your WebM or Something else entirely. Do Not make that choice for us.

You cite Mozilla as following this path, but fail to mention the fact that they have been widely criticized for doing so at the same time - just as you are now. The flack is not going to go away. Horrendously decisions like this warrant the harsh criticism you're now getting.

I can only hope you correct this mistake.

Trigun said...

Edit: Horrendously bad decisions*

Stephen said...

I think this is a anti-competitive move by Google. Regardless of what they say, they are in control of WebM just like they are in control of Android - except of course if they end up in court then they don't.

Google's customers are companies that are advertising through Google. Google has shown that is the only thing they are interested in; just look at what happened when Wave couldn't be monetised.

I'm surprised Google actually hasn't ended up in court yet considering they own a monopoly on internet advertising and use that monopoly to control sites such as YouTube and services such as AdMob.

George said...

Before Google Chrome web was slow, it was just some pages, and we were made to believe that this is the best the we can get, then came Chrome and the web became much better, and waaaaaaaaaaaay faster, for the first time in my life I have the technology and tools to build a descent client application using the Google Chrome platform.

I believe that Google is going to make video better, so go Google go!

Wode said...

It's sad people so readily give in to proprietary codecs added directly into the HTML standard. The web is what it is because of open standards and the fact that nobody owns it. To insert proprietary and/or patented technologies directly into the web vocabulary would be foolish and ignorant. If the future is H.264, set it free. I wish the W3C would stop being so damn neutral on the matter, in violation of their own mission statement.

And I can't believe there is an actual legion of passionate fundamentalist fanboys of a video codec. What the hell, people?

mileoresko said...

Seriously?! Do Apple employees get payed to trash competition posts?! Safari's market share is estimated at <6%, yet somehow everyone here is going back(?) to Safari!? I can not imagine why anyone in his right mind would waste his time to comment on corporate(!) policies and corporate(!) spins and clashes in such a high-pitch tone. Evil/open/monopolistic? They all are trying to do the same thing! Make more money from all of us! They only have subtle differences in their approaches. Taking sides, or taking any of that personally is crazy stuff, if you ask me.

Jason said...

@George:
"Before Google Chrome web was slow, it was just some pages, and we were made to believe that this is the best the we can get, then came Chrome and the web became much better, and waaaaaaaaaaaay faster"

Thats completely wrong. It's fine that you're a fan of Chrome. I am too but being so revisionist is just a bit ridiculous. The reality is Chrome/Safari/Firefox are all about the same. I just prefer Chrome/Safari because I like WebKit.

@Wode:
"It's sad people so readily give in to proprietary codecs added directly into the HTML standard. "

Nobody has. You wont see a codec mentioned in the standard...thats part of the problem here. It's up to the people who make the browser as to what they implement.

"And I can't believe there is an actual legion of passionate fundamentalist fanboys of a video codec."

I assume you mean the guys going off on WebM given that its nowhere and H.264 is everywhere.

@mileoresko:
"Safari's market share is estimated at <6%, yet somehow everyone here is going back(?) to Safari!? "

Presumably those people are using Macs.

Kevin said...

Wow, after reading a lot of comments it seems to me that Google is no better than Apple. Seems everyone makes out SJ and Apple to be non "open". Unwilling to let people do what they want with software or hardware. But, this isn't a new story. Apple has been this way all along. They have always been very restrictive with their software and hardware. It's only now when they are moving up in market share that all the fanboys come out of the woodwork as Apple haters. Everyone just needs to get over it. Don't buy it if you don't like it. It's kind of funny, but Google does the same thing, its just that most fanboys are too stupid to realize it. Google restricts as much as Apple does, but that they do it more under the table. Google is about "control" just like Apple is. Just like any other company trying to make money. People just need to realize that they aren't in the business of making you happy. The bottom line is how much $$$$ can we make. And we will step on whom ever we can to make it. Remember this, Google doesn't exist with out competition.

Hachre said...

Fanboi opinions tend to be biased.

Lobotomik said...

Way to go Google!

It is the right time to decouple HTML from a patented encumbered video format. Nobody is using the video tag yet, so let's start using it right.

H264 gives better quality? Marginally so, if at all, and depending on what codec is used. WebM codecs are very new and can still be improved, too.

WebM may trip H264 patents? Maybe, or maybe the reverse is true, or both. EVERY piece of software today is at risk with the preposterous patent system that is in use in the USA.

iPhones don't have hardware decoders? Well, they will have to use software decoders, or tell their (splendid) software engineers to devise a way to decode using 3D shaders.

Naysayers and Apple Koolaid drinkers: your tea party attitude of immediately giving in to corporations and blindly sacrificing civil rights to them is pathetic; thankfully it looks like this time it will go nowhere. Who cares if you drop Chrome to go back to Safari? Fortunately for you, you will only have to load the WebM codec on your iStuff (or Flash, if, when and where your High Priest allows you) and get it over with.

Dmian said...

Apple vs Google, the bout for the crown. FIGHT!

Ulrik said...

Uninstalling Chrome right now.

M Henri Day said...

Good move ! But as usual, Google is holding its cards rather close to the vest when discussing the underlying motive. Jason Perlow's ZDNet article (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/perlow/googles-h264-decision-its-all-about-youtube-costs/15529) helps to remove some of the veils....

Henri

Andrew Luecke said...

I honestly can't believe so many people are defending the use of H.264, simply because a few devices currently accelerate it. That's incredibly short sighted. Barely any devices have H264 specific acceleration currently. A few devices ALSO support EAX, and yet, I don't hear anyone here whining when Microsoft axed it.

Remember, most "hardware acceleration" for h.264 is probably software driven anyway, and possibly just needs changes to the drivers, or firmware updates.

We REALLY don't need H264. The only reason people are defending it is because they are living in their own little world where they think they wont get sued. It's like poison to users and developers, because there are still royalties involved.

Flash is also a completely different story, because there are currently no replacement tools for Flash Creator (the only alternative is writing code from scratch), whereas there are replacement codecs for H264. Furthermore, Flash is partially open too, and Adobe don't have a royalty structure set up.

I'm sorry guys, I have to agree with Google here. It's a genuinely open technology, and if Google HAD evil intentions, they would have patented it.

I guess you guys wont care though until there is another Gif-style lawsuit, or the first round of letters to companies go out demanding royalties.

Dannns said...

Thank you Google.

There may not be hardware support for WebM right now. But that is not an issue at all. Consider this, many cell phone users, who are the ones using hardware video support, are on 2 year contracts; so in 2 years you can switch to the proper hardware. Google's move is the best for pushing just one single standard. It would be too expensive to include hardware support for both H.264 and WebM.

Hopefully this will help solve my age long problem of sending videos to friends. I never know which format to use. Unless I use MPEG1, there is usually a number of my recipient who can't watch one format or the other.

Act-if Design &amp; Code said...

Google is basically right...BUT
2 years too late.

Dropping h.264 now only hurts the user.

What now?...we fight for few years till the next-gen-really-open codex is ready......say 10 years :-(

Lalit S Chowdhary said...

The spirit of web 2.0 to collaborate seem to be dying. http://goo.gl/fb/b4vWN

Coyote said...

This is a HUGE win for Flash, a closed, non-HTML standard. WTF, Google? Chrome was my favorite browser, but I guess I have to go back to Safari now.

Daniel said...

Get rid of FLASH Google and I will support your decision 100%

viewpoint609 said...

This is very entertaining. Google is a company. It has shareholders. It acts in the best interest of it's shareholders. It clearly believes that this is in the best interest of it's shareholders. Apple is a company it has shareholders and .... It does the same. If making decisions that increase your revenue and profits makes you evil then google is pure evil. And, pretty much, so is every other company.

Until google starts to make decisions that hurt it's revenue and profit in their goals to not do evil, the whole do no evil is just bs. What do no evil means is do no unnecessary evil. Which pretty much means nothing at all. All companies are evil. Some just fool the ignorant. I like google a lot. I just cannot suffer the fools that think it is really a not for profit. It is very unclear that this will really benefit google's competition with apple and others. Clearly they think it will. I guess we will all just have to wait and see. Until then I hope they continue to increase their profits. Good for my stock portfolio.

RickertB said...

this is definitely an #epicfail for google.

Just stick to selling ads you stupids

superdifficult said...

I will be recommending that Chrome be removed and not supported from all development and testing of web content that I am involved in. This is a terrible idea.

Ars says it best:
http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2011/01/googles-dropping-h264-from-chrome-a-step-backward-for-openness.ars/3

Aaargh! said...

Why do techies have to solve a problem created by lawyers ? If H.264 is technically superior, choose that and let the lawyers figure out the licensing mess.

You're solving the wrong problem.

Tonio said...

Leaving aside the fact that you're hypocritically baking Flash into the browser while damaging html5 video adoption, the basic original argument (that h264 isn't completely free) applies equally to fonts, which are supported by the CSS font-family property which is part of the standard and has been for, what, a decade? The same mechanism could be applied to codecs and video.

So, to be consistent, you'd need to drop support for Flash, Silverlight, and any non-open/free fonts such as Times New Roman, Verdana, Helvetica, and Arial.

But you know, our grandchildren will thank you. Or not.

Andrea said...

it's a great decision. Just a question to people complaining about this: are you able to imagine a world where you have to pay to use the div tag in your html? Because that would happen today if the creator of the HTML standard didn't decide to create an open standard, free from royalties. Google did this move for its interest, but its interest, for once, is the Internet community's interest.

Knevah said...

QQ more, the question is not if we CAN support h.264 but if we should. Whoever asked about Audio, there is no need to invent a new Audio format, there is one already it's called Vorbis.

b00giZm said...

Steve Jobs may live in his reality distortion field, but at least he was honest about Apple's decision of not supporting Flash on iOS.

Google does not have the balls to do so. The only thing their product managers can do is to puke the words "open" and "openness" all over their blog postings, hoping that people won't notice that Google is just as evil as MS or Apple!

But at least it's a pleasure to see from the comments that most people are not buying this "Don't be evil"-bullsh*t anymore.


sent from Safari (after sending Chrome to /dev/null)

CvP said...

Hey Google. "Search" is a core part of Internet. Can we please replace the whole google search with an "open search engine"?
Do you think your shitty webm will get hardware acceleration support in all devices over night?
Retarded explanation blog post is retarded.

Zoolevation said...

Stupid move by Google, H264 is already everywhere, Blu-Ray, European Digital TV DVB family, American ATSC, hardware support in many GPU's, camcorders, smartphones etc. What about YouTube? every single YouTube video has a H264 raw video format. You guys gonna convert every video in WebM..haha! If you drop H264 support in Chrome why not also MP3, AAC and Flash?

If you guys wanna change the ''open video codec world'' start with dropping evil Flash and not with the already very widely adopted H264.

Firrae said...

As a web developer this is great. I hate trying to tell people that in order to serve video content online across all platforms they have to pay ridiculous licensing fees. My company will be greatly happy when this comes to fruition. Google, keep doing a great job in making the web open and a easy place to develop and innovate on.

I have all browser flavors and was a beta tester for IE9, no matter what I try nothing compares to the speed Chromes runs at and the wide birth of what it allows me to do online.

digitaltoast said...

This is about as stupid and annoying for both developers and end users as Mozillas tired codec crusade to push us all towards ogg. It ain't working, it's just annoying.

Mirek2 said...

This just means that H.264 won't be supported out of the box in Chrome, but that doesn't mean that you won't ever be able to play H.264 videos in Chrome. Microsoft already released an H.264 plug-in for Firefox and it's probably that someone will do the same for Chrome.

In any case, as an open-source supporter and a Linux user, I believe Google (and Firefox and Opera) is doing the right thing here.

freechelmi said...

It's really crazy here how most people tend to think that google have done a terrible mistake that will slow down adoption ....

Do those people know the facts ? Only chrome and Safari ( 20% of the web users ) were supporting H264 in and ugly flash was used in 80 % of other cases.

IE678 and Firefox/opera will never support this H264 as native.

So do you people wanted this to stay like this Forever ? Leaving Big corporations like Apple making Money on this?

We are just at the begining of the HTML video and google understand this, apple understand what makes their Stock value rise I guess ....

WebM is already supported on 60 % of Web users with Firefox4 and Opera !

With Chrome frame and safari plugin this goes to 100%


Mobile viewing is still only 2% of web users. Desktop wins.

Mirek2 said...

@Zoolevation:

How is Flash evil?
Flash is no detriment to innovation, because content creators don't have to pay a dime to distribute their content.

Also, Flash is currently the "widely adopted" standard for web video. H.264 is barely used with the HTML5 video tag and doesn't work on most browsers (IE8 and earlier, Firefox, Opera, and now Chrome).

Adonis said...

Ok I have to call BS on the people who are saying Apple is making money on this. They would actually make more money if they didn't have to pay for licensing h.264 technology. Apple only owns 4 of the literally HUNDREDS of patents that went into the making of h.264. In fact, MSFT, and Panasonic are the ones who gain form h.264.

vertex@Symphony said...

Thank you so much Google for pushing an Open Standard like WebM !!

On my own I'm supporting it and let's hope that with time that this format gains enough traction to have it hardware-accelerated (just to address that concern) and approved by ISO ...

All my respect and thanks for not being evil =D

koudelka said...

People, this is only about the tag. Google don't mind you using h264 for your other downloadable videos or videos watched at Hulu, netflix or other places (which use DRM and will never be something that can be added native to an open platform like the web). I support this move by Google, we need free solution that everyone can use.

Tuomas said...

If all goes well, no one will begin to use h264 at web, and we will get a better, _FREE_ and open format.

Despite the fact that h264 is so well known it never really was very good codec in the first place!

stm said...

I also find it strange that you're trying to claim a high moral position regarding open formats yet include Flash and a pdf reader in Chrome.

The only way your position and rationale for removing h.264 support can be justified is by removing those as well.

As it stands, you're just setting up annoyances for current and potential users while being evil to all the poor content producers (and me, i enjoy using Chrome, please don't break it).

mdavidse said...

This is a business decision. Not a principal one.

If it was, why don't you drop Flash-support (and all the other patent ridden codecs). Oh... you have support for H.264 with your built in Flash-plug-in (you just let Adobe pay for it). If you didn't no one would use your browser.

Hypocrites!

mh said...

I'm done with Chrome.

Blueberry said...

I cant support WebM so long as you keep bundling flash. Palm still can't ship a phone with flash support they _promised_ years ago, because adobe just doesn't care about palms platform anymore. Apple fights so hard to move us away from adobe's terrible platform because adobe can't deliver a flash which is suitably performant on mobile hardware (as demonstrated by the terribly builds available on android).

Google's support of flash can only be seen as anticompetitive and monopolistic in this light, and their extremely slow pace converting YouTube to run on pure HTML aligns with this perfectly.

Sadly this push for open lower quality codecs puts flash in the position of the definitive best way to serve video to chrome users, ultimately hurting every competitor google has in the mobile space who can't ship flash all while android engineers continue down this path of upping the number of cpu cores in their handsets to try and cope with the strain of these terrible defacto standards.

WebM may be a good baseline for the future, but nobody is going to take it seriously until google does: drop flash and tell adobe where to shove it. They've been screwing the internet for long enough and there need to be consequences.

Until google is ready to take web video seriously, I'll keep encoding my content in the practical, high quality, universal format - h264. Chrome users can have flash viewers.

Get serious, and we'll get on board with WebM in a heartbeat. This can't just be another way to try and stifle Apple competitively though. It needs to be a real standard built on a clearly pure and thought out foundation.

Look at what your flash bundling has done to harm your ability to innovate on the web.

entropypoint said...

Those of us in the know realise that H264 is a notably technically superior standard to VP8/WebM. While I personally applaud the open nature of WebM, I find it tragic that the technically superior codec is being dropped.

Google, you're reversing down the information superhighway.

If you support both (like you do with HTML5 and flash) then developers would have a choice as to whether or not to use H.264 or not.

I make a pay site, people join and watch video, I use WebM. I make a free site and I benefit from the technically superior H.264 with far more extensive colour support. Best of both worlds? Hello Google?? Why not?

Supporting both H.264 and WebM was the way to go. It gave developers the power to choose. There is no reason to remove this choice other than to force the hand of developers. As a developer myself I'd choose a flash shim.

Sad day for the web.

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